Architectural Dialogue: A Conversation Between Dean Robert Stern and Architect Charles Gwathmey

Published: November 14, 2008

The upper level of the Robert B. Haas Family Arts Library offers many places to tuck into a good book.

New Haven, Conn. — The following discussion between Robert A.M. Stern, the dean of the Yale School of Architecture, and Charles Gwathmey '62 M.Arch., renovation architect for the recently rededicated Paul Rudolph Hall (see related story) and designer of the adjacent Haas Family Arts Library and Jeffrey Loria Center for the History of Art, was organized and edited by Nina Rappaport. The full version of this article originally appeared in Constructs Fall 2008, the news magazine of the Yale School of Architecture (www.architecture.yale.edu). This is a condensed version.

Robert Stern: When I became dean in 1998, I set out to define our goals going forward, which included financial aid and endowments for various special activities. But on top of the list was the Art + Architecture Building's (A + A) future. ...

The A + A was not a loved building, and frankly, in my opinion, it would have been torn down if that weren't so expensive. Many in the University had no memory of it in its good days, no appreciation of its qualities. It was a lost child. At a public meeting at the school, I got President Rick Levin to say the goal was to "renovate and restore the building," and that was the key thing. Not to patch it, but to really bring it back. Sid R. Bass (Yale College '65) then pledged a significant gift. ...

Rick Levin, the Facililties Department and I agreed that Charles Gwathmey was the right architect. To his great favor was a wealth of experience in some of the most nightmarish projects that you could imagine involving the renovation of and additions to historic modernist buildings - additions to the Fogg Art Museum and the Guggenheim. His love for Yale and his tremendous respect for Paul Rudolph made it perfectly clear that his selection was a no-brainer.

Charles Gwathmey: To me, the first priority was to clarify the true essence of Rudolph's intention. In a way that meant pulling everything out that was vestigial, added and compromised, and making the building the pure diagram. With the new addition we could take the circulation and the elevators out and add a new service core with the bathrooms to make his building absolutely pure. Rudolph actually had proposed an addition off the core to the north. ...

Stern: The Arts Area Committee, consisting of the deans from the various schools — art, architecture, music, drama, and the directors of the British Art Center and the Yale Art Gallery - was established to develop a workable plan that would improve all of the arts facilities according to a realistic timetable.

When I became dean, the committee had already approved Deborah Berke's renovation of the former Jewish Community Center as a home for the School of Art. Key to the plan was the Art Gallery's need to expand into the Swartwout Building and Street Hall. To make this ensemble, the History of Art Department had to move out of Street. Part of the plan also involved the Arts Library, which was overflowing its available space in the A + A. Given that both art history and architecture had to be with this library, it was inevitable these two departments would come together, as they had been historically.

The University owned two marginal buildings between the Yale Daily News office and the A&A Building, and was prepared to take them down, creating the site that Rudolph always knew could be used to expand this building. Rudolph thought of the A&A Building like a residential college with a courtyard, which is what Charles has basically achieved.

Gwathmey: ... [E]ach user group — architecture, art history and the library — had its wishes. The library, to be the Robert B. Haas Family Arts Library, wanted to double its space, be contiguous, and have a street entry and presence. The History of Art Department was concerned about being perceived as "an addition" and wanted also to be distinguished through an architectonic resolution. ... For the School of Architecture, one of the critical things was to maintain the transparency and the views from the north-side studios, even with the addition ...

I think the disposition was very clear once we understood the library had to be on the ground and basement levels and that it was the connecting space. Then we took Rudolph's ceremonial stair as the idea of entering the exhibition floor, with the entry to the new lecture hall and the History of Art Department reception, which established the vertical disposition. The offices for the History of Art Department in Loria start on the fourth floor and go up to the seventh ...

Architecturally, you see Rudolph's building in so many different ways, through glimpses and transitions between the two buildings, and you're always looking back and forth at architecture ... What was important to me also was the elevation of the fifth façade as the green roof over the lecture hall and the fourth-floor terrace interconnecting the two buildings, instead of looking down onto generic roofs. ...

Stern: When the dean's design advisory committee — made up of the president, the officers, myself and former deans Cesar Pelli and Tom Beeby — had a meeting in which Charles presented his design, Cesar said, "I think you should consider limestone for the building. Everyone looked like deer caught in headlights: "Limestone, that sounds very expensive!" But Cesar was very quiet and firm. The limestone is jaw-dropping; it's fantastic.

Gwathmey: When I presented the building to faculty and students in September 2006, I left heartsick because Vincent Scully said, "You should make it all glass." M.J. Long said, "The elevation is not resolved." Everybody said the plan and sections were amazing, but the façade didn't do it. I drove back to New York sick; I couldn't even eat dinner, I was so upset. I came back to the office and said, "I'm relooking at the elevations." ... So I raised the limestone and changed the entire image of the building ...

Stern: I've never been on a job as much as Charles has been on this job. When I couldn't see him in New Haven, he called me up in New York to say, "I have to send this over to you." And then two minutes later, "What do you think?"

Charles has had great people on the proj­ect who should be acknowledged: Tom Levering, Elizabeth Skowronek and Steven Foreman. And associate dean John Jacobson '70, who coordinated the project on our end, is as passionate as Charles is about the building. He wanted to protect every square inch for the school because, when I was a new dean, we had to sign what I've come to see as a pact with the devil stating that we could have 57,000 square feet of space for the school and not a square inch more. Yet any school that is healthy is growing all the time.

Another issue is that of the construction schedule. A thing I was committed to as dean was that no student was going to receive a degree from this school who hadn't spent at least one year in the A + A Building. That is why I insisted that when we were in the Sculpture Building — which has been a perfectly good summer rental — we had to go back home in a year. The A + A is a fundamental part of the culture of the school.

Gwathmey: The other commitment of the University was to make the building sustainable. We had to air-condition it while maintaining the integrity of the original ceiling planes, where we hid all the new mechanicals. In the end we decided to replace the windows, which wasn't part of the original project. We didn't even know if we could get the glass.

Stern: In 1994 the original windows had been replaced, and indeed Rudolph made a sketch of how the windows should be done. Fred Bland '72, of Beyer Blinder Belle, which was the firm responsible at the time, has the drawing in his office. Sadly, Rudolph and Fred were constrained by what was then available. Charles is able to benefit from the incredible leap in glass technology today.

Gwathmey: Atelier Ten environmental consultants gave us good directions and evaluated the solutions. The building had hung ceilings with asbestos that was ripped out in the 1970s. To create the effect of the original ceiling plans we adopted a European radiant ceiling panel, which both heats and cools and reduces the ductwork by 60%.

We added two zinc-clad mechanical towers behind the Rudolph towers on the west side, that are almost like shadows — you would never know they were there. Our lighting consultant, Robert Leiter, reinvented Rudolph's lightbulb into a fixture, which is incredibly efficient. ... The project is LEED Silver, which is amazing if you think in terms of Rudolph's original building.

Stern: In Rudolph's day students plugged in an electric pencil sharpener, a lamp and a radio, and most were in business. Today the most advanced electronics have to be threaded throughout the building.

The A + A was environmentally challenged — uninsulated glass and exposed concrete made it difficult to regulate interior temperatures. Students used to wear mittens in the winter and bathing suits in the summer when temperatures would register 110 degrees; there was no way for the heat to be dissipated. The concrete was also a problem, with spawing, revealing rebars placed too close to the surface. New windows installed in 1994 were accompanied by pre-cast caps and were used to cover over the worst conditions, like in dentistry when teeth are capped after grinding them down. But the caps had proven to be the wrong waterproofing solution, and it was much better to go back to the true concrete.

I can think of no more difficult task than the design of an architecture school. In this case, when you consider the number of people who teach here, went to school here, who are also leading designers and are heavily invested in this building, it's like being out in the blazing spotlight on center stage: Charles has been a strong performer.

Gwathmey: It was very complimentary for me to have been asked to do this because I loved Paul and because of my time here. Paul used to recruit Der Scutt '61 and me to ink perspective drawings of the building at night. As he designed, he struggled about being across the street from Louis Kahn. For me to be able to come back and restore the building and also do an addition is a great way to express my gratitude.

Stern: I watched the A + A being built, was the first class that moved in, and used to take people on tours, including [Pulitzer Prize-winning architectural critic] Ada Louise Huxtable.

When the building opened it was the Guggenheim Bilbao of its day and was as much the subject of mass-media scrutiny. Later it became so obscured by renovations that nobody remembered that there were ceilings that had been ripped out because of the asbestos. Let's not forget that part of the story. And a lot of people are going to come back to see whether we blew it or not. As far as I'm concerned, what Charles has accomplished is fantastic, amazing, a thrill. Seeing this building come back is one of the greatest things I've experienced.

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